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Author Topic: [Joe Dobbes] New techniques in viticulture & winemaking; is wine getting better?  (Read 31707 times)
VinRaptor
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« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2008, 12:02:57 PM »

Hi Joe! I have not heard of Velcorin but it certainly seems to play a significant role in the winemaking process. Thanks for the information.

When we talk about new techniques in viticulture, can we make the assumption that one reason why wine is getting better is because winemakers in America are focusing on terroir, meaning that they are paying more attention to matching grapes to the region, e.x. planting Pinot instead of Zinfandel in a cooler climate region?

Absolutely.  I cannot agree more.

Years ago the assumption was that hotter was better.  I intended to mention in a post a few minutes ago that the best wines, in my opinion, are wines  that are made from grapes grown in marginal climates.  Grapes that strive to ripen and just get there at the end of the season make the most interesting wines.

Years ago if it was warm, then "they" planted grapes.  They used to laugh at the fact that our predecessors were planting grapes in Oregon......now "they" are paying attention to where we are planting, trellising and managing our vines, the clones, etc.
  Hi, Joe, and many thanks for sharing your obviously vast knowledge. As to growing in marginal climates, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of their "most interesting" character. A textbook example of "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Interesting (to me, anyway) how it dovetails with human experience in general. Oh, and as one who has enjoyed wines for - well, quite a few decades, I was most intrigued when wines from Oregon and Washington started to hit the market, and had not a whit of regional chauvinism. I looked forward, as always, to new oenological experiences - and did I/we ever get them. I've had offerings from that wonderful area that simply blow away many traditional European wines. Be Well; Carpe Vinum!
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jdobbes
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« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2008, 01:10:18 PM »

Thanks for the welcome eyedoc. Viticulture does seem to play an important role in making great wine. I was reading some history on the subject (can't seem to find the source at the moment) and what is baffling is that winemaking and viticulture hasn't always been as tightly integrated as they are now. To me, this really seems to tie into the contribution of making a better wine, hence the question. So I would assume that one of the advancements is the integration of the two, and I am sure there are other advancements that contribute as well.

I agree with your assessment of the integration of the two.  Other advancements are those such as Velcorin, juice concentrators, reverse osmosis, alcohol reduction, the ability to remove Brett characters from wine as well as TCA/off moldy and musty characters amongst others.

Now I've heard the term reverse osmosis before, but could you explain (at a very high level in layman's terms) what the heck it is? It sort of sounds like a filtering process; if so, what's eliminated when the process is complete?

Reverse osmosis involves Reverse osmosis (RO) is a separation process that uses pressure to force a solution through a membrane that retains the solute on one side and allows the pure solvent to pass to the other side. More formally, it is the process of forcing a solvent from a region of high solute concentration through a membrane to a region of low solute concentration by applying a pressure in excess of the osmotic pressure. This is the reverse of the normal osmosis process, which is the natural movement of solvent from an area of low solute concentration, through a membrane, to an area of high solute concentration when no external pressure is applied. The membrane here is semipermeable, meaning it allows the passage of solvent but not of solute.

The membranes used for reverse osmosis have a dense barrier layer in the polymer matrix where most separation occurs. In most cases the membrane is designed to allow only water to pass through this dense layer while preventing the passage of solutes (such as salt ions). This process requires that a high pressure be exerted on the high concentration side of the membrane, usually 2?17 bar (30?250 psi) for fresh and brackish water, and 40?70 bar (600?1000 psi) for seawater, which has around 24 bar (350 psi) natural osmotic pressure which must be overcome.

This process is best known for its use in desalination (removing the salt from sea water to get fresh water), but it has also been used to purify fresh water for medical, industrial and domestic applications since the early 1970s.

When two solutions with different concentrations of a solute are mixed, the total amount of solutes in the two solutions will be equally distributed in the total amount of solvent from the two solution.

Instead of mixing the two solutions together, they can be put in two compartments where they are separated from each other by a semipermeable membrane. The semipermeable membrane does not allow the solutes to move from one compartment to the other, but allows the solvent to move. Since equilibrium cannot be achieved by the movement of solutes from the compartment with high solute concentration to the one with low solute concentration, it is instead achieved by the movement of the solvent from areas of low solute concentration to areas of high solute concentration. When the solvent moves away from low concentration areas, it causes these areas to become more concentrated. On the other side, when the solvent moves into areas of high concentration, solute concentration will decrease. This process is termed osmosis. The tendency for solvent to flow through the membrane can be expressed as "osmotic pressure", since it is analogous to flow caused by a pressure differential.

In reverse osmosis, in a similar setup as that in osmosis, pressure is applied to the compartment with high concentration. In this case, there are two forces influencing the movement of water: the pressure caused by the difference in solute concentration between the two compartments (the osmotic pressure) and the externally applied pressure.

Reverse osmosis is used primarily for two purposes in winemaking; the removal of water and thus concentration of must and removal of alchohol.
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jdobbes
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« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2008, 01:16:43 PM »

Hi Joe! What do you think the most formidable hurdle will be for winemakers in your area for the 2008 harvest?

The most formidable hurdle that I can think of right now is not having the benefit of a crystal ball; then I suppose if we all had a crystal ball, we may not be having this discussion, or I would be sitting half or completely naked on some exotic beach with a laptop......

...But seriously, the most difficult thing this time of year for me is the consideration of fruit thinning decisions in the vineyards.  We never know what the carrying capacity of a vineyard is going to be from year-to-year.  Each vineyard of course varies, but then so does each vintage.  I warmer vineyard has more carrying capacity, or more accurately gives less risk to the winemaker, than a cooler vineyard.  Some years we wish we could go back and reattach fruit we dropped and other years wish we would have dropped more fruit.

I often refer to grape  growing, or the way to manage the vineyard is via prophylactic measures.  In other words, we know it is going to eventually rain like hell and there will be no more warm and dry windows in which to pick, so manage the vineyard in all measures as if it will start raining on October 7th without any turning back.....


Interesting stuff Joe, thanks! So let me ask you a follow on question - will this year's fruit thinning impact only the current years yields or can it impact future yields (e.g. like pruning)?

This year's thinning, or lack of, can definitely have an impact on next year's crop, but primarily only in vineyards that are overcropped and thus stress the vines and depleting their abilities to grow good fruiting wood and carry much of a crop in subsequent years.  This is a very brief summary of the situation.
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enobytes
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2008, 02:07:04 PM »

I'd like to personally thank Mr. Dobbes for participating on our forum and for educating our readers. It's been a pleasure to have you aboard, Joe!

As a reminder to our readers, we will wrap up our discussion tomorrow so please post any additional questions you have for Joe as soon as possible.
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Eat well. Drink well. Live well. Enobytes!
jdobbes
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« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2008, 01:49:16 PM »

I'd like to personally thank Mr. Dobbes for participating on our forum and for educating our readers. It's been a pleasure to have you aboard, Joe!

As a reminder to our readers, we will wrap up our discussion tomorrow so please post any additional questions you have for Joe as soon as possible.


It was my pleasure to participate in this forum.  I hope all who read and participated thought it worthwhile.

Joe
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