[Craig Camp] New World vs. Old World Wines: Is There Really a Difference?

[enobytes]

This is our first monthly discussion of Vino Exchange, a segment to promote the exchange of ideas, opinions, knowledge and inspiration to a community of curious souls enabling open interaction between wine professionals, enthusiasts and consumers alike.

Our topic this month is: "New world vs. old world wines, is there really a difference?"

The conversation will be lead by Domain Drouhin's Cellarmaster and Operations Manager Arron Bell, in charge of all winemaking operations and bottling under the direction of Veronique. Arron will post his view on the subject this week and we encourage everyone to engage with Aaron and others on the subject matter.

[eyedoc47]

Karen,
Thanks for putting this together.The cellarmaster at Domain Drouhin will be perfect for this topic since Drouhin makes wine both in Burgundy and in Oregon. This should be both educational and interesting. Looking forward to it.
 Thanks again. L'Chiam,
                                            eyedoc                             

[karen]

Well, I'd like to take credit but I think Pamela put it together. I'm only responsible for coming up with part of the name for the group! I proposed "The Wine Exchange" Regardless, this should be a great session!  I know a little about old world versus new, but it will be great to get Arron's view on it!

[zinguy]

Hey all, thanks for the concerns of my whereabouts and sorry for the lack of contributions lately. I'm on overload between work and family but I'm back and jazzed about starting this conversation! If it were up to me I would have called the discussion group "The ZINquisition" (ha!) but I like the name we picked.

So I started studying up on the subject. I question whether the distinction of old world versus new world isn't fading; it seems to me that more Old World wine makers are producing wines with a New World style and vice versa. Case in point, when it comes to Zinfandel (ah, you knew it was coming, right?) I find it hard sometimes to distinguish between Italian Primitivo's and American Zin. Is it my lack of taste buds in need of more samplings or are things changing in the winemaking industry? It's a question for Arron or anyone that might shed light on the subject.

[karen]

Hi Zin!  Nice to see you again! Zinquisition - I like it. By the way, good question. I don't know enough about the subject to comment :-) I know the definition of Old World versus New, but I have to admit the subject is a bit confusing for me, especially when I come across comments like the one I found on the internet about the subject: "New World-style wines are about the winemaking process and winemaker's ability to manipulate the wine, whereas Old World-style wines are more about the terroir and have a strong sense of place". Huh? So its manipulation versus terroir?

[eyedoc47]

I think Zinguy hit it" Old World winemakers are producing wines in a New World style and vice versa." The lines are beginning to blur.In NW more attention is on terrior,what grapes and clones in what soil. Old and New are using similar techniques in vineyard and winery: biodynamic and organic farming,modern canopy management. The process of maceration, fermentation, and barreling is also becoming similar. In Barolo, some winemakers are using smaller barrels for aging,extracting more tannin, a New World technique. In Bordeaux, a new class of winemakers,Bordeaux Oxygene, are using New world techniques to make wine more approachable in their youth. The big difference is still style.NW, ultraripe,high sugars, big fruit and alcohol. OW, wines to be enjoyed with food; lower alcohol, higher acid,balanced.The choice is with the consumer. A blur is occuring.Whatever the choice they both must be balanced:sugar,acid,alcohol,tannin,fruit to be a great wine in any world

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Update!!! We apologize for the delay but Mr. Bell has had an extremely busy week and with Pinot Camp rounding the corner, he won't be able to converse on our subject at hand until next week. I encourage you all to keep the conversation going as we await Arron's presence. Thanks for your patience.

[VinRaptor]

Hey all, thanks for the concerns of my whereabouts and sorry for the lack of contributions lately. I'm on overload between work and family but I'm back and jazzed about starting this conversation! If it were up to me I would have called the discussion group "The ZINquisition" (ha!) but I like the name we picked.
So I started studying up on the subject. I question whether the distinction of old world versus new world isn't fading; it seems to me that more Old World wine makers are producing wines with a New World style and vice versa. Case in point, when it comes to Zinfandel (ah, you knew it was coming, right?) I find it hard sometimes to distinguish between Italian Primitivo's and American Zin. Is it my lack of taste buds in need of more samplings or are things changing in the winemaking industry? It's a question for Arron or anyone that might shed light on the subject.

  'Bout time you showed up, Zig; good to hear from you again! And that name is a beauty; well worth pigeonholing until varietal fora come about. You never disappoint us.
  As to the Primitivo/Zin connection, I suspect a bit of digging will reward you with some interesting background similarities for the two. Don't worry about your taste buds; even your prodigious appetite for a steady diet of a multitude of zins couldn't dull your oenological acumen, as you have so ably proven.
  While agreeing with you on the OW/NW tradeoff (very astute, I might add), I tend to find that OW wines have a mustier earthy quality, and are more redolent of bygone eras...although that may just be their inevitable effect on this sentimental ol' phule; I was introduced to wines by one whose knowledge and collection levels are rare these days (especially the latter). Be Well; Carpe Vinum!

[zinguy]

Thanks Vin, good to be back! OW - the mustier earthy quality makes sense. I'll have to closely compare an OW and NW Zin side by side and see if I can pick up the slight differences. Could you elaborate a bit more about "OW are more redolent of bygone eras".

[zinguy]

Hi Zin!  Nice to see you again! Zinquisition - I like it. By the way, good question. I don't know enough about the subject to comment :-) I know the definition of Old World versus New, but I have to admit the subject is a bit confusing for me, especially when I come across comments like the one I found on the internet about the subject: "New World-style wines are about the winemaking process and winemaker's ability to manipulate the wine, whereas Old World-style wines are more about the terroir and have a strong sense of place". Huh? So its manipulation versus terroir?

Hey Karen nice to see you as well! How have you been? Regarding that quote, I don't think the real difference is manipulation versus terroir, but I could be wrong.

[zinguy]

I think Zinguy hit it" Old World winemakers are producing wines in a New World style and vice versa." The lines are beginning to blur.In NW more attention is on terrior,what grapes and clones in what soil. Old and New are using similar techniques in vineyard and winery: biodynamic and organic farming,modern canopy management. The process of maceration, fermentation, and barreling is also becoming similar. In Barolo, some winemakers are using smaller barrels for aging,extracting more tannin, a New World technique. In Bordeaux, a new class of winemakers,Bordeaux Oxygene, are using New world techniques to make wine more approachable in their youth. The big difference is still style.NW, ultraripe,high sugars, big fruit and alcohol. OW, wines to be enjoyed with food; lower alcohol, higher acid,balanced.The choice is with the consumer. A blur is occuring.Whatever the choice they both must be balanced:sugar,acid,alcohol,tannin,fruit to be a great wine in any world

I think the lines are a bit blurred. Good analysis on why this is eyedoc, and you are right, balance is the key!

[VinRaptor]

Thanks Vin, good to be back! OW - the mustier earthy quality makes sense. I'll have to closely compare an OW and NW Zin side by side and see if I can pick up the slight differences. Could you elaborate a bit more about "OW are more redolent of bygone eras".

  Sure, Ziggy; glad to! The era during which I was introduced to fine wines (Think "I Like Ike"), and fine they were, believe me - largely first growths of notable French yards - made available to me offerings already in their twenties or older. Hence the reference to the "inevitable effect on this sentimental ol' phule." I know that there are certain pleasures (or pains) of various sorts which take you back to earlier chapters of your life as well, since that's the way the human mind works. Accordingly, when I sniff'n'sip a fine, earthy older Bordeaux or Burgundy, I'm often transported back to my earliest tasting days, and invariably draw comparisons between the respective contents of glass and memory. My Esteemed Mentor told me that this would be one of the many benefits of a proper education in wines, and - as usual - was right on the money. As the cliche' goes (and remember - cliche's don't become such, and enjoy long term survival, unless they're firmly rooted in truth...I also wish keyboards allowed us the use of proper accents when using English, or any other language), In Vino Veritas. Every glass I hoist brings me a fresh dose of Veritas, or Truth, whether I like it or not. One of the perks, you know. Be Well; Carpe Vinum!

[enobytes]

Folks, I apologize for the long delay but I've just received news that Arron's schedule is on overload right now due to Chardonnay bottling activities and travels to France. He apologizes and hopes to participate in an upcoming discussion.  I am actively seeking another person to fill his shoes! Stay tuned.

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I am happy to announce that Craig Camp has graciously accepted to lead this conversation. Craig has an extremely diverse background which spans from wine writing, restaurant critiquing, photojournalism, sales and marketing to winemaking (just to name a few!). He spent a few years in Italy, writing and doing a total immersion experience in Italian winemaking. This led to the creation of VinoCibo.com where he shared his experiences and engaged in an exchange of ideas with other like-minded "terroirists". Now that he is back in the USA that project has been replaced by his Wine Camp Blog which goes beyond the wines of Italy and has his own consulting company, Craig Camp Communications. He has also held the position of General Manager at Anne Amie Vineyards in Carlton, OR, where he was responsible for all aspects of winery operations. Please give a warm welcome to Craig Camp!